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Forum:2019-07-24 (Wednesday)
Discussion for comic for . Many editors make long wikis. ---- "Hy might be better at dis politics ting den hyu think..." :) --Kuopiofi (talk) 06:56, July 24, 2019 (UTC) Do you think "Would you like a job" was what motivated them hitting him (for thinking that he was allowed to participate in their team banter), or would they have done it anyway? Nice to see the boys cooperating (and doing a good job of reading each other's mind), and Tarvek's expression in the last panel is priceless. All in all, an enjoyable and funny page -- even though it doesn't really advance the plot. (As someone said the other day, one hardly notices that when binge-reading, but once caught up it's a little frustrating. I mean, when Dickens was being serialized in the newspaper, every chapter advanced the plot.) Bkharvey (talk) 07:14, July 24, 2019 (UTC) : A single page of this comic is hardly comparable to a chapter of a novel. This is a few paragraphs, at best. To me, this is reminiscent of the Bob Hope and Bing Crosby Road movies. Not exact, but similar. They hit him because he's Martellus but they know they can't kill him right now. --Fred1740 (talk) 10:49, July 24, 2019 (UTC) ::Yes, you're right, of course; the only thing that's the same is the feeling of waiting for the next installment. I guess I should try the experiment of reading David Copperfield and limiting myself to a chapter a day, to see if I'm right about how it feels. :-) I've never seen those movies, so I'll just pretend you cited Route 66 on television instead. Bkharvey (talk) 11:07, July 24, 2019 (UTC) :::Nothing like Route 66. The scene here is reminiscent of a running gag throughout their films. A number of fans on other sites saw it as well. --Fred1740 (talk) 16:27, July 24, 2019 (UTC) I like their banter here. This feels a little bit like a continuation of the end of , which is where we saw Tarvek and Gil last. In this case, Tarvek is starting the "remedial education" by teaching Gil on how to react to his family. But I think that the real point of this whole conversation is the effect it has on Tweedle when they just show up and talk about him like he's not even there. I kind of want to do a blow-by-blow. Panel 3: Tarvek and Gil suddenly appear behind Martellus and Violetta, who both appear very startled. This implies that they snuck up on a couple of people with Smoke Knight training, not to attack, but just to show off that they could (and mess with Martellus). (Of course, Gil probably doesn't have Smoke Knight training or anything, but he seems to have a lot of other combat/adventuring experience, and maybe Tarvek was able to help him sneak up to the rest when they weren't on their guard.) : We know, in fact, that the Empire's elite troops . Bkharvey (talk) 11:13, July 24, 2019 (UTC) :: Not that we'll probably ever get an authoratitve answer, but I would argue those were not the Empire's "elite troops", at least for the situation at hand. Their gear and outfits strongly suggest they were more specialists at stealthy night-work, not running a smash-and-kill open assault against freaking Jagers. I maintain it was Klaus again sabotaging whatever orders he was given by Lucrezia, and deliberately sending exactly the wrong set of guys. As one of them says: "We'll just gas the whole area and burn it down from the air. It's what we should have done in the first place." Yes, it was (from their point of view). And it's what Klaus normally would have done if he really wanted someone dead. --Geoduck42 (talk) 21:21, July 24, 2019 (UTC) ::: You may be right. Mainly, Tweedle probably wasn't on full alert, not expecting to be attacked (and he wasn't, during the sneaking-up part of the page). Bkharvey (talk) 06:35, July 25, 2019 (UTC) Panel 4: Tweedle turns around to confront them, but they pointedly talk about him like he's not even there, and don't even bother to look at him. Panel 5: Tweedle is positively distraught here; I love his expression, since this may be the saddest that he's ever looked. The fact that Tarvek and Gil are acting surprisingly friendly towards each other while ignoring him completely seems to be getting to him badly. They're making it seem as thought they don't even care about why he's there, at least not enough to bother asking him. Panel 6/7: The moment Martellus tries to interrupt, they both punch him. It's the less subtle way of sending the same signal they've been sending the whole time, namely that they are united against him. Also notice the subtext: Tarvek has just implied that Gil is a simpleton in need of his guidance, while Gil outright called Tarvek his jester, but it's still treated as friendly banter. But Tweedle is not allowed to call them idiots without immediately being attacked. So while Tarvek and Gil may be rivals, Tweedle is not the same kind of rival to them as they are to each other. Of course we, the audience, already knew this, but I don't think that Martellus realized that Gil and Tarvek had this kind of frenemy relationship. Quantheory (talk) 08:08, July 24, 2019 (UTC) : Yes, all that. But, maybe I'm just not understanding the subtleties of "frenemy," but I think they've moved past that point. They're rivals, but, despite how they talk, without the slightest hint of enmity. It slipped by quickly, but even though they're rivals with respect to Agatha, and even though Gil's inability to be around Agatha without Klaus taking over was a big advantage to Tarvek, he didn't hesitate to cure Gil of Klaus-in-the-head. And Gil noticed; that's why he was at a loss for words back then. As for Tweedle, what he didn't notice is that he's an unwelcome presence in this group, and that would be the case whatever the state of Gil-and-Tarvek as a team. Bkharvey (talk) 10:15, July 24, 2019 (UTC) :: Well, I was reluctant to read too much into their friendliness here because I was thinking of , where they switched immediately from passive-aggressive banter to an outright brawl. But I agree that this feels different; rather than barely-restrained rage, it's more like the way that brothers interact, especially as children. I.e. the occasional teasing/annoying/bickering remarks they exchange has turned into more like a game they're playing, or a way of testing and establishing boundaries. (I guess it's also possible that by the end of panel 5 they are starting to really get on each others' nerves, but that Martellus provides a handy alternative target for their aggression that relieves that tension.) Quantheory (talk) 23:24, July 24, 2019 (UTC) ::: Oh, but that page was a long time ago. Before , before , before of Tarvek from Mechanicsburg. Before Tarvek gets Klaus out of Gil. They're best buds, just as when they were eight. Bkharvey (talk) 06:35, July 25, 2019 (UTC) ::: P.S. Precisely eight, when they were torn apart. If you see childishness in their interaction, it's a semiconscious agreement to have the adolescence together that they were denied by politics. Bkharvey (talk) 05:55, July 26, 2019 (UTC) A bid for Moxana points: Countess Marie is the contact that Tweedle is attempting to find. No reasons, just an intuition. Well... that and there's still a glaring lack of reunion with Master Payne's troupe yet. --MadCat221 (talk) 17:32, July 24, 2019 (UTC) : Marie turns out to be Lucrezia's best friend? Ugh, I'm sorry, but I hope you're wrong. If it has to be someone we've met, make it Lady Steelgarter. --Geoduck42 (talk) 21:21, July 24, 2019 (UTC) : I don't think this is the worst guess. It's certainly possible that Lucrezia had some non-villainous friends before the Other War, especially if she was half as good at playing the innocent pawn as Zola (and Klaus certainly seems to think that Lucrezia did that sort of thing a lot). : But if Marie was Lucrezia's friend, I would think she might have said something to Agatha when they were fleeing Sturmhalten and Agatha's identity had been revealed. Also, while Vapnoople seems to pick his apprentices rather impulsively, it seems unlikely he'd get along well with someone who wasn't a fairly strong spark with a fondness for monsters and brutality. That really doesn't seem like the Countess. Quantheory (talk) 23:50, July 24, 2019 (UTC) : I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but no, Vapnoople wouldn't pick a very minor spark as an apprentice. Bkharvey (talk) 06:35, July 25, 2019 (UTC)